VFACTS Feb 2025

[smoo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Isnt it sad that the hp wars of yesteryears FPV/HSV has been replaced with a luggage capacity battle where 50mm is noteworthy.
Its like 1984 all over again

Well, from the few times I’ve looked for a specific car out of interest, most motoring publications now don’t even publish 0-100 times.
Go back 20 years and Motor Magazine would do 1/4 mile, top speed in every gear and base the review on how the thing steers and rides.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by smoo

Well, from the few times I’ve looked for a specific car out of interest, most motoring publications now don’t even publish 0-100 times.
Go back 20 years and Motor Magazine would do 1/4 mile, top speed in every gear and base the review on how the thing steers and rides.

This is where I give some credit to Carexpert, they a check things like a vehicles lane keep assist, do acceleration runs and even a reverse gear max speed check...the Mustang got over 70km/hr in reverse

[kypez]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Isnt it sad that the hp wars of yesteryears FPV/HSV has been replaced with a luggage capacity battle where 50mm is noteworthy.

Its like 1984 all over again

Because it's a car in the people mover segment. In the FPV/HSV days they didn't ping a car for not going off-road nor carrying 7 passengers.

The performance cars are still benchmarked on the same criteria as years gone by. The people mover/4wd segment will be compared on those segment attributes.

Having extra space going off road is really handy when you have recovery gear and all the other things needed when going off road. Even going interstate, having a bigger boot with 7 in the car makes a big difference.

[mitch]

Could someone here explain the drop in sales for the F150 this month.

Jan25 230
Feb25 155

Have I missed something, or is there a sound reason. I am starting to see a few around. And as a throwback to me being a 70s kid I have seen a couple set up as Tow Trucks and Tilt Trays (F250)

[kypez]

Originally Posted by mitch

Could someone here explain the drop in sales for the F150 this month.

Jan25 230
Feb25 155

Have I missed something, or is there a sound reason. I am starting to see a few around. And as a throwback to me being a 70s kid I have seen a couple set up as Tow Trucks and Tilt Trays (F250)

Have they even updated them to the 2024 model yet or are we still getting the 2023 model?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kypez

Because it's a car in the people mover segment. In the FPV/HSV days they didn't ping a car for not going off-road nor carrying 7 passengers.

The performance cars are still benchmarked on the same criteria as years gone by. The people mover/4wd segment will be compared on those segment attributes.

Having extra space going off road is really handy when you have recovery gear and all the other things needed when going off road. Even going interstate, having a bigger boot with 7 in the car makes a big difference.

I spend anywhere up to 10hrs a day, 6 days per week in metropolitan traffic and I can comfortably say the vast majority of Prado's, and any other 4wd wagon for that matter, I see have a sole occupant or a couple and a child or 2 at most.
And I often do school services so see more than my share of AM/PM drop off/pickup.
Rarely do I see the 6th/7th seat in any 4wd wagon being used, Families aren't the small army they once were.

Theres plenty of room for a pram and suitcase in the new Prado.

What this non story tells us is that Ford have realised the average buyer doesnt care for V6 power or that their 4cyl is not winning traffic light drags and are left clutching at straws.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by mitch

Could someone here explain the drop in sales for the F150 this month.

Jan25 230
Feb25 155

Have I missed something, or is there a sound reason. I am starting to see a few around. And as a throwback to me being a 70s kid I have seen a couple set up as Tow Trucks and Tilt Trays (F250)

US built imports were impacted by the bio problems at port entries recently would be my guess.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I spend anywhere up to 10hrs a day, 6 days per week in metropolitan traffic and I can comfortably say the vast majority of Prado's, and any other 4wd wagon for that matter, I see have a sole occupant or a couple and a child or 2 at most.

And I often do school services so see more than my share of AM/PM drop off/pickup.

Rarely do I see the 6th/7th seat in any 4wd wagon being used, Families aren't the small army they once were.



Theres plenty of room for a pram and suitcase in the new Prado.



What this non story tells us is that Ford have realised the average buyer doesnt care for V6 power or that their 4cyl is not winning traffic light drags and are left clutching at straws.

Good point about the children in the car. Strollers, bicycles, scooters, etc all take up space so again, any extra space that you can have would be welcomed by families even with 1-2 kids.

I know with our little one, the boot is full before you know it just going to the park.

I wouldn't write off the Everest of a couple of months performance. Let's see in the next few months if the ships normalise

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kypez

Good point about the children in the car. Strollers, bicycles, scooters, etc all take up space so again, any extra space that you can have would be welcomed by families even with 1-2 kids.

I know with our little one, the boot is full before you know it just going to the park.

I wouldn't write off the Everest of a couple of months performance. Let's see in the next few months if the ships normalise

Its been 4 months of decline and the dedicated Ranger/Everest ship wasnt impacted by port strike action as per article posted in last months vfacts thread.

I doubt it'll fall much further as its pretty much back where it was llast time it competed with available Prado 150..

[whynot]

Originally Posted by kypez

I wouldn't write off the Everest of a couple of months performance. Let's see in the next few months if the ships normalise

I would give it longer than that ...

At one point last year, when I was getting really impatient at the wait for the Everest, I mulled over the option of getting a new Prado instead. In September 2024, the local Toyota dealer said to me that the wait for the GXL would be up to 12 months, with the higher spec models possibly taking longer. Which would make that around September 2025 before delivery.

From that, one can assume that Toyota has an solid book of backorders for the Prado that it has sold to customers, sight unseen. Which means whatever number of Prado that Toyota is shipping in last month, we can expect the same number each month for the rest of the year.

The bit I would like to understand is just how many Prado buyers would still be committed to the purchase if they had the opportunity of looking at the Prado in the flesh. I suspect we won't fully understand unconstrained buyer's preferences until later on in the year.

The other thing that has struck me in the last few weeks, while touring through rural NSW and VIC, is the number of Rangers and Everests on road when compared to Hilux and Prado. I haven't done a scientific punch-buggy count, but, to my eye, newer Ford 4WD dominates the commercial and rural fleet. I am wondering if Toyota is becoming a bit of a urban purchase on the premise that it is more reliable in the bush. Whereas in the actual rural environment, the reliability and features of the Ranger and Everest are more than enough to push Hilux and Prado into second place.

I had a look for datasets on rego's by model by postcode, but the closest I got was rego by brand. If anyone knows of a dataset, I would be curious to understand the real figures (and not impressions floating around inside my head).

[CyberWasp]

Ford should offer a discount (of x dollars) to anyone who cancels their Prado Order before it arrives and buys an Everest.

They have to get Hungry.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Isnt it sad that the hp wars of yesteryears FPV/HSV has been replaced with a luggage capacity battle where 50mm is noteworthy.
Its like 1984 all over again

True, though this luggage wars episode is more reminiscent of the XD Falcon not being able to stand up an esky in the boot, or the amount of space lost in the VZ-VE wagon changeover.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I spend anywhere up to 10hrs a day, 6 days per week in metropolitan traffic and I can comfortably say the vast majority of Prado's, and any other 4wd wagon for that matter, I see have a sole occupant or a couple and a child or 2 at most.

To be fair, most cars/vehicles are not used regularly at their full capacity /potential.

I have a 7 seat suv. It will rarely be used as 7 seats and 90% of the time I'll be the sole occupant.

I bought it because there are times when I will need the full ability of the vehicle.

So generally, what we see on the roads around us isn't really evidence of much at all. It's just a small meaningless snapshot in time.

[Sprintey]

"Here comes the hurt: New-car sales flop, dual-cab utes struggle and EVs are nowhere as soft start to 2025 continues"



https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-new...owhere-as-soft



"The new-car industry's soft start to 2025 continued in February, with key models like the Toyota HiLux and Ford Ranger recording sales falls, electric vehicles stalling and the entire market dropping almost 10 per cent on the same time last year.

The prophesied hard landing for Australia's new car market seems to be coming true, with today's news following a difficult January in which has seen the 2025 year-to-date total fall 6.7 per cent compared to the first two months of 2024.

All up, 94,993 vehicles were sold in February, compared to 105,023 sold in February 2024. Year to date, the market stands at 181,797 sales, compared to the 194,805 recorded in the first two months of 2024.

"Surprisingly, it's some of the country's most (usually) bullet-proof segments that are proving hardest hit, with the 4X4 ute market falling 7.9 percent year on year, and 9.7 percent year to date, with some of the segment's biggest names among the biggest losers.

Toyota HiLux 4x4 sales plummeted 20 percent compared to the same month last year, for example, while the Ford Ranger 4X4 was down 20.7 per cent in February. The 4X4 versions of Volkswagen Amarok (-35.7 per cent) Nissan Navara (-45.7 per cent) and Isuzu D-Max (-34.1 per cent) also struggled in February.

The 4X2 ute segment makes for even harder reading, falling 33 per cent month on month in February.

The falling market still propelled the Ford Ranger to number two on the best-seller list in February, with its 4040 sales only bettered by the Toyota RAV4's 4405 sales. Spots three, four and five were occupied by the Toyota HiLux (3616), Toyota LandCruiser Prado (2723) and the Mitsubishi Outlander (2385). The BYD Shark 6, Isuzu D-Max, Mazda CX-5, Kia Sportage and Hyundai Kona held spots six through 10 in February.

"With three vehicles inside the top 5, it's little wonder Toyota leads the market in sales, with 18,832 sales in February. Next came Mazda with 8797 units, followed by Kia (6707), Ford (6337) and Mitsubishi (6119).

Still, the industry is pointing its fingers at a softening demand in electric vehicle sales as the real culprit. The industry said it was "increasingly concerned at the rate of total battery electric vehicle sales".

"We are now two months into the Government’s New Vehicle Efficiency Standard, and while the supply of battery electric vehicles has risen dramatically, consumer demand has fallen by 37 per cent this year compared with the first two months of 2024," said FCAI Chief Executive Tony Weber.

"The easy part is to set aspirational targets but without consumers demanding EVs, the NVES will not succeed. It is time for the Government to consider the realities faced by consumers."


- Just an observation on this, there is hardly a vehicle in the top 10 I would buy with my own money and it's been that way for a long while. And even fewer if it was the heart buying and not the head.

- If someone retails a brand new AWD petrol Territory, or a brand new VY wagon new, I will 100% buy it tomorrow in cash. Manufacturers, go for it, there's your challenge.

In the meantime I'll enjoy the dual cab decline with popcorn.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

To be fair, most cars/vehicles are not used regularly at their full capacity /potential.

I have a 7 seat suv. It will rarely be used as 7 seats and 90% of the time I'll be the sole occupant.

I bought it because there are times when I will need the full ability of the vehicle.

So generally, what we see on the roads around us isn't really evidence of much at all. It's just a small meaningless snapshot in time.

Agreed, and on those rare occasions im sure the Prado is sufficient, which is why theyre selling.

[prydey]

Vfacts data is simply figures on what is selling. It's impossible to extrapolate much from the data at all except to see what type of vehicles are trending and what brand/model of vehicle is popular. That's about it.

Popular doesn't necessarily equal better and vice versa.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Vfacts data is simply figures on what is selling. It's impossible to extrapolate much from the data at all except to see what type of vehicles are trending and what brand/model of vehicle is popular. That's about it.

Popular doesn't necessarily equal better and vice versa.

Who said it did?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Who said it did?

Wasn't quoting anyone...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by prydey

To be fair, most cars/vehicles are not used regularly at their full capacity /potential.

I have a 7 seat suv. It will rarely be used as 7 seats and 90% of the time I'll be the sole occupant.

I bought it because there are times when I will need the full ability of the vehicle.

So generally, what we see on the roads around us isn't really evidence of much at all. It's just a small meaningless snapshot in time.

So well put...I was going to reply to Bent saying, our driving observation is for the 10 seconds we see them driving past us...

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Its like 1984 all over again

I don't understand the reference. Orwellian?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

So well put...I was going to reply to Bent saying, our driving observation is for the 10 seconds we see them driving past us...

I’ll give him this, driving around in the city gives one a good feel of the general sizes and shapes of vehicles
owned but some of the finer details like 3-row vs 2-row SUVs is sometimes hard to pin down.

Astounding just how many single occupants in vehicles in the daily commute traffic.

[kypez]

This forum really does my head in at times.

EVs/small SUVs/etc, impractical, not enough range for my commute from Sydney to Broome, not big enough boot space, not capable, can't tow, people don't want them for those reasons.

Ford build the Everest with 7 seats, capable, more space than the Prado, more grunt with the V6, usable 3rd row... Wait, people are only driving them 1 up so they don't need the power, range, extra space.

I'd hate to be in product development looking to this forum for direction.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by kypez

This forum really does my head in at times.

EVs/small SUVs/etc, impractical, not enough range for my commute from Sydney to Broome, not big enough boot space, not capable, can't tow, people don't want them for those reasons.

Ford build the Everest with 7 seats, capable, more space than the Prado, more grunt with the V6, usable 3rd row... Wait, people are only driving them 1 up so they don't need the power, range, extra space.

I'd hate to be in product development looking to this forum for direction.

The most vocal ones don't buy new cars.

[GT1533]

What I wonder is who is buying all these RAV4s. They have sold about 90,000 in the last two years yet I hardly see any on the road and I live in a Melbourne suburb which I would think is the RAV4 target market. I remember if there was a new model Falcon and Commodore that after 90,000 sales I would be seeing them everywhere. The RAV must be so generic and bland that they are practically invisible.

By comparison the new/current model Ranger has sold about a third more (125,000) in the last two years and I see them everywhere. I know I have a brand recognition bias, but that RAV4 is a mystery to me!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’ll give him this, driving around in the city gives one a good feel of the general sizes and shapes of vehicles
owned but some of the finer details like 3-row vs 2-row SUVs is sometimes hard to pin down.

Astounding just how many single occupants in vehicles in the daily commute traffic.

Actually, if you sit at a school at am/pm drop off/pickup you see how many kids get into different vehicles so its fairly obvious, for example, that an suv is 3 row if 4 kids get in with Mum and Dad.
What you also see, whilst sitting at lights etc. as you travel around in those peak periods, is how many people are in vehicles next to you and, unfortunately, what the driver is being distracted by on their phones.

No, its not an exact science but its probably a better gauge than you'll get anywhere else without running a survey.

Try sitting in a 75 seat coach full of kids fresh from their brekky sugar rush whilst you wait for Joanne Bloggs to move out of the school bus setdown whilst she drops off her 1 little darling in her full size SUV.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Wretched

The most vocal ones don't buy new cars.

Im looking at a new Outlander ES AWD in diamond white as we speak.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by kypez

This forum really does my head in at times.

EVs/small SUVs/etc, impractical, not enough range for my commute from Sydney to Broome, not big enough boot space, not capable, can't tow, people don't want them for those reasons.

Ford build the Everest with 7 seats, capable, more space than the Prado, more grunt with the V6, usable 3rd row... Wait, people are only driving them 1 up so they don't need the power, range, extra space.

I'd hate to be in product development looking to this forum for direction.

Lol, most car companies cater to those who dont need a V6 or diesel, or 7 seats or go anywhere capabilities.
Then theres Ford, who cut everything bar the above and in a declining market find themselves...wait for it...in decline.

Go figure.

And if people buying a Prado really need more space and power, well, they can buy a 300 series.
And if they need less they can get a Fortuner, RAV, Corolla Cross or Yaris Cross.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Actually, if you sit at a school at am/pm drop off/pickup you see how many kids get into different vehicles so its fairly obvious, for example, that an suv is 3 row if 4 kids get in with Mum and Dad.
What you also see, whilst sitting at lights etc. as you travel around in those peak periods, is how many people are in vehicles next to you and, unfortunately, what the driver is being distracted by on their phones.

No, its not an exact science but its probably a better gauge than you'll get anywhere else without running a survey.

Try sitting in a 75 seat coach full of kids fresh from their brekky sugar rush whilst you wait for Joanne Bloggs to move out of the school bus setdown whilst she drops off her 1 little darling in her full size SUV.

I hear you
I made the mistake of going home a different way and ran into a row of Karen’s queued up down the street waiting for the three pickup set down spaces in front of the school
Never again……

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Lol, most car companies cater to those who dont need a V6 or diesel, or 7 seats or go anywhere capabilities.
Then theres Ford, who cut everything bar the above and in a declining market find themselves...wait for it...in decline.

Go figure.

And if people buying a Prado really need more space and power, well, they can buy a 300 series.
And if they need less they can get a Fortuner, RAV, Corolla Cross or Yaris Cross.

Useless, off topic trash talk.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Useless, off topic trash talk

Can I send you some money?

I feel a bit guilty living rent free in your head.