MEANXBCOUPE engine build up.

MEANXBCOUPE · 25-05-2008, 08:36 PM

Hello people!
Welcome to my new thread.

I thought that I'd do a thread to cover the build up of the new motor for my '74 XB Coupe. First I'd like to thank Col and Dave for helping with the positioning of the thread.
I dont frequent the Clevo site too much, where it really should have been before the openning of this new build up section and prefered this thread to be in the Coupe Club section any ways. Got a soft spot for the club you see.
Thanks guys........

OK, so a few people may have seen my car in Street Machine presents, Australias toughest Fords.

Cover car, yeah.

The photos and artical were taken back in June last year.
I attended motorex in July, about 2 weeks before the issue hit news stands.
A few weeks later I attended the NSW All Ford Day at Warick Farm racecourse, but, with a dark secret..... (play suspencefull music).

The week previous to the All ford day, The car was back at my workshop for a few adjustments, panel gap wise. It was a Friday night and a barby wasput on at work for the boys, we were packing away customer cars for the night. Mine was the last put away, so a burnout was in order!. Long story-short. Im now bulding a new motor after I struck water.

Truth be known, The car was sounding off before the " testing" started, maybe a small ignition issue or something, so ive got only myself to blame.

Motor before big bang

So now you know, It had a blown motor in more ways than one!! That explains the tilt tray.

Anyways, Im going to follow the progress of the new motor build up and post any updates here for your enjoyment. I dont pretend to be a gun engine builder but over the last 18 years Ive allways done my own work. This is the first catastrophic failure to date. Yes ive broken down and stuff like this but never lost a motor before.
That was probley my biggest worry before the motor was pulled down, did I screw up??? What did I forget to do???. Now I know.

The car came back to my house after All Ford Day, where it has remained since.

Dont get the idea Ive slacked off and waited 9 months to fix it, Ive been busy you see. Early September seen the arrival of my first born, Lachlan, and gotta say, Both Tracey and I have not stopped (or slept) since. The coupe has taken a back seat for a short time till we settle a bit with Lochie.

OK, nuff of the dribble. Motor got pulled from the car in late December.

Empty bay.

:

Here we see an engine block, You may notice a hole, this is bad, bores should not have holes!!!. Check out the wall thickness. Measured in at 0.032", good ad for sonic testing. FYI other side of bore measured at 0.250", Core shift.

Number one cylinder.

Here is a picture of the crank and rod!

And piston and rod!

Basically, too little wall thickness plus 0.030" bore plus 10 pound boost = a total loss of motor.

I kept the following parts.
Rocker covers
Manifold
Blower
Carbys
Water pump
Pulleys
Dizzy ( although its bent the shaft its custom made so I'll need to fix it.)
Sump ( 7 holes in total, kept it for the above reason, custom)

The block is stuffed ( and now land fill) Allready 030" over, no point sleaving it. Number dont match anyway and isn't a GT block
Crank is bent, wouldnt rotate in the block.
One piston shot, it "fell" into the hole in the bore, jamming it snapping off the rod.
Rods, junk.
Cam, broken in thre places due to the broken bit of rod beating the crap out of it.
Dizzy, bent drive shaft due to the cam twisting in the block putting pressure on the shaft, I'll fix it as said.
Heads, not too bad, but a few bent valves, we go into this latter.

Any way thats it for now.
Hope you follow the journey!!!
Cheers Gary.

Geez Louise · 25-05-2008, 08:41 PM

Great read Gary. I was just reading about your car again today in the mag.

I can't believe how much damage has been done. Looking forward to seeing the progress though. Best of luck with it all.

Col

MEANXBCOUPE · 26-05-2008, 05:13 PM

Thanks Col for the support.

Dont know of the finish date yet. Got heaps to do. May be at AllFord Day again...

Yep a bore is a big hole??!!

Electric XY · 25-05-2008, 08:46 PM

good luck with the build, awesome looking coupe. i allmost saw your car at motorex but i could not get any where near it from all the people gathered around it .will it be at the next motor ex or the all ford day.

XBCoupeNZ · 26-05-2008, 01:41 PM

You don't mind if I print out a life size colour print of your motor and tape over my engine bay do you?

:

Isn't a bore, just a big hole? Guess its not good when the piston goes sideways eh .. was a very pretty engine though.

Auslandau · 26-05-2008, 08:10 PM

Well what can I say! Thats a hell of a hole!! With a bay like that and a near fresh start, imagine the huge cubes that would fit without the restrictions of the towers!!!

Very sad to see and dread something like that happening to mine! Those last minute bits of fun can end in tears ....

| [/url] |

fatasslandau · 28-05-2008, 06:56 PM

and look no scratches in engine bay. JUST AS WELL OR I'LL HAVE TO COME ROUND AND! AND! watch you fix it. i've got the dates for all ford day maybe it'll be ready for you to win all the trophy's again [like it should f#%k it's nice] if i can help with anything let me know

MEANXBCOUPE · 28-05-2008, 07:41 PM

Dont joke about scratching the engine bay. It's NOT FUNNY. Its gotta go back in yet.

fatasslandau · 29-05-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEANXBCOUPE

Dont joke about scratching the engine bay. It's NOT FUNNY. Its gotta go back in yet.

its all good mate i'll bring heaps of bubble wrap and beer.

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-05-2008, 07:47 PM

So you replacing the block with aftermarket ?
What specs ?

Uncle Raggy · 29-05-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEANXBCOUPE

Here we see an engine block, You may notice a hole, this is bad, bores should not have holes!!!. Check out the wall thickness. Measured in at 0.032", good ad for sonic testing. FYI other side of bore measured at 0.250", Core shift.

Number one cylinder.

Bloody core shift. You just can't trust pattern makers and foundries can ya! Lol, I shouldn't say much since I am a patternmaker by trade and still work in a foundry

: The only block I've ever made a pattern for was a 4 pot aluminium Ford based speedway motor, not too much of an issue with core shift, it's all sleeved anyway

atec77 · 10-11-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Raggy

Bloody core shift. You just can't trust pattern makers and foundries can ya! Lol, I shouldn't say much since I am a patternmaker by trade and still work in a foundry

: The only block I've ever made a pattern for was a 4 pot aluminium Ford based speedway motor, not too much of an issue with core shift, it's all sleeved anyway

When I was a very young taka I did this in my Fj , had it stiched and sleeved , thens old it way back in the late 1960's at highschool

Fev · 29-05-2008, 12:59 PM

ouchies, i cant wait to see the new motor. doin anything different? other then fixing the first problem ofcourse :P

MEANXBCOUPE · 30-05-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

ouchies, i cant wait to see the new motor. doin anything different? other then fixing the first problem ofcourse :P

Hi Fev,
Yep doing heaps different, but you'll have to wait and see!!!!

The old motor had a stock cast crank, stockish rods, fordged pistons and 2v heads. Things will change for the new motor, mainly for reliability and a few more neddies.

Gary.

fatasslandau · 29-05-2008, 06:38 PM

sonic testing works sometimes i went through 3 clevo blockes before we found one up to the task.although one block passed sonic test went to the machine shop then passed on to engine builder only to have the bore leak when he was cleaning with gerni. so who stuffed up. the sonic tester or machine shop? needless to say next one was scrutineered very closely

MEANXBCOUPE · 30-05-2008, 03:10 PM

: ohhh, beer you say???

:

fatasslandau · 30-05-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEANXBCOUPE

: ohhh, beer you say???

:

ohhhhh yes beer just packed the fridge with some nice cold ones just waiting for me to bring em over and consume while we put a certain engine in

MEANXBCOUPE · 30-05-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatasslandau

ohhhhh yes beer just packed the fridge with some nice cold ones just waiting for me to bring em over and consume while we put a certain engine in

Ohhh, Cold beer you say????

motorcycles4eva · 30-05-2008, 08:16 PM

nice car even without engine.. sad to see the damage but good luck with the build.. if you don't mind a silly question... was it a 351 block? if so when borred out and the walls are so thin, would you or could you re do a 460 blown engine?? i mean is it worth it in different ways?? (im learning about engines sorry...)
cheers..

MEANXBCOUPE · 30-05-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorcycles4eva

nice car even without engine.. sad to see the damage but good luck with the build.. if you don't mind a silly question... was it a 351 block? if so when borred out and the walls are so thin, would you or could you re do a 460 blown engine?? i mean is it worth it in different ways?? (im learning about engines sorry...)
cheers..

Hi,
The original block was in fact a 302 clevo. The crank and rods were 351 items, a very commom swap. That block was bored 0.030" ( say "30 thou") oversize.
A 460 would be nice, but due to local laws a 351 is close to maximum. ( ilove big blocks, my brother has a 429 in an XW ute and a mate has a 429 super cobra jet in he's XB coupe)

Hope this helps...
Gary

MEANXBCOUPE · 30-05-2008, 09:49 PM

Update.
Think time. With no motor and a desire to drive the car, something needs to be decided on. Which motor???

Thought process.
A. Big block/ small block?
Quite easy really. The mind says blown bigblock. The wallet says blown small block.
Why?
1. Both the car and the old motor were built for each other. The front chasis rails and x-member have been made to suit a small block, that is, the room allocated when the EB column and rack was installed allowed a small block with a gear reduction starter to fit in, just. I dont want to cut into the engine bay to modify mounts ect.
Also all the front accessories (pulleys,water pump, alternator, power steering pump, manifold, sump, blower drive and dizzy) have all been custom fabricated to get a neat package and get the blower under the bonnet, this would be very expensive and time consuming to redo for a big block.
2. Can't legally register a blown 429/460 in NSW in a car with an original weight of 1550 Kg ( largest is 358cid if you were wondering).
3. Dont have a core engine.
Answer SMALL BLOCK.

B. Which small block?
1. 351 Windsor or 351 Clevo?. Windsor, superior parts availability, better oiling system,

front accesories dont fit, dont have one

:
2. 351 Cleveland. Poor block integrity

: , Ive got a spare block, all parts fit, engine bay doesnt need mods, familiar with build up ( Big blocks are just big Clevo's IMO), Cost effective

.
Answer CLEVELAND BASED.

C. Which Cleveland block?
1. Stock Ford Casting. Ive got one, they can be toughened up

2. World/Dart/Ford Motorsport/Man-o-war. All good, but the cleveland versions of these motors all use a windsor front structure, same issue with accesories, plus they are about $3000.

:
3. New Alloy block. Bloke in the USA is casting alloy clevo blocks ( as well as cast iron), Light, new, exiting

. Unknown durability, unknown delivery, not machined for lifter bores, cam tunnel ,decks, or finish mains tunnel, so factor in a few thou for the machine work, plus freight plus insurance plus the original price of about $2600 US.

:
Check out this....
http://351cleveland.wetpaint.com/pag...e+Block?t=anon

Answer , STOCK BLOCK CLEVELAND.

All this of course is IMO. The new motor needs to have some sort of cost containment, its not going to be an all out drag motor, nor is it going to be stock with a blower, but you need to keep in mined what is its REAL usage...

Nuff of the dribble.

Some shots of the new block, some basic cleaning up of the block has allready been done before the shot were taken. Its a 74 model block to meet emmission rules and is virgin bore. Its done approx. 280,000 Km.

The block has been hot tanked and pressure tested. It was then sonic tested for bore thickness ( I have the report somewhere but cant find it for scanning), this showed 2 cylinders to be marginal thickness. All other cylinder checked out OK. The 2 cylinders were then sleeved. Then a rough bore was done to find out piston size.

A .010" bore wouldn't have cleaned up, so the block has been bored .017" ready for a hone to match each individual piston when they are bought. The main and cam tunnels checked for straighness. The block has not been decked due to not having rods and pistons for deck height.
You will also see that the valley is cleaned up of casting flash, and the outside of the block is die ground and sanded smooth. The inner part of the block will get the same treatment as the valley, just in case some debris is dislodged and jams the oil pump. The heater hose fitting has been removed and has been tapped for a 1/2"npt fitting.

As a side note, I machined the old motor myself when I worked for a large (government) company with the correct machinery ( Im a Fitter/machinist by trade), but since then Ive changed jobs twice and dont have this availability now. As a result Im using Westend performance in Sydney for all the machine work. They are close to work and home and I know they do good work cause I used to work for them in the early 90's ( read 1990).This isnt a plug just info!

And yes I know it only a two bolt mains job, but cost is an issue, thinking about a main gridle if it will fit in the sump.

Well thats it for the moment. Next time, engine components and configuration....

Cheers,
Gary.

**Falcon Coupe** · 31-05-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEANXBCOUPE

And yes I know it only a two bolt mains job, but cost is an issue, thinking about a main gridle if it will fit in the sump.

Well thats it for the moment. Next time, engine components and configuration....

Cheers,
Gary.

I had mine tapped for four bolt, it was pricy and while the caps are stronger more holes in the block are not really a great idea.
Looking at the webbing i reckon a main girdle would be a great idea.

MEANXBCOUPE · 01-06-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I had mine tapped for four bolt, it was pricy and while the caps are stronger more holes in the block are not really a great idea.
Looking at the webbing i reckon a main girdle would be a great idea.

Yeah, Im going the girdle, the motor is a little bit further on than the thread so im sorting that out now. Looks like I'll need to make one from scratch to fit in the sump. Just another custom part I guess!!!

Uncle Raggy · 02-06-2008, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEANXBCOUPE

Yeah, Im going the girdle, the motor is a little bit further on than the thread so im sorting that out now. Looks like I'll need to make one from scratch to fit in the sump. Just another custom part I guess!!!

Would it be easier to custom make a sump to fit around the girdle?

MEANXBCOUPE · 02-06-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncleraggy

Would it be easier to custom make a sump to fit around the girdle?

You havent seen the sump yet!!!!

Its been cut to lower the motor, so it clears the crossmember, notched to clear the rack, and winged to add extra capacity.

We'll see, as I said, kind of working it att out now.

Auslandau · 30-05-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEANXBCOUPE

Can't legally register a blown 429/460 in NSW in a car with an original weight of 1550 Kg ( largest is 358cid if you were wondering).

Didnt know that! Wonder what the limit here in Vic is!

Great write up! Makes total sense to go back to the clevland block since you have most of the top end anyway ..... unless you are changing heads etc.

| [/url] |

motorcycles4eva · 31-05-2008, 12:32 AM

good info ..thanks for that..
cheers

Rebel220 · 03-06-2008, 04:53 PM

Colin... he is not to have beer when working on the car...I've seen what happens when he has had too much to drink and works on the car.

Ask Gary about the time he was making extractors for the car? Lets just say beer fridge in garage and welding is not a good mix!

I will never let him live that down...

Sorry Gaz, I couldn't help but mention this.

Uncle Raggy · 04-06-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebel220

Colin... he is not to have beer when working on the car...I've seen what happens when he has had too much to drink and works on the car.

Ask Gary about the time he was making extractors for the car? Lets just say beer fridge in garage and welding is not a good mix!

I will never let him live that down...

Sorry Gaz, I couldn't help but mention this.

Ah, do tell!!!

fatasslandau · 04-06-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebel220

Colin... he is not to have beer when working on the car...I've seen what happens when he has had too much to drink and works on the car.

Ask Gary about the time he was making extractors for the car? Lets just say beer fridge in garage and welding is not a good mix!

I will never let him live that down...

Sorry Gaz, I couldn't help but mention this.

FINE THEN I will have to bring scotch,burbon etc.......... and a little beer. Hey i also said i would bring the bubble wrap